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Phil Palmer has had quite a career as a guitarist.  From being a studio musician to touring with Tina Turner, Eric Clapton and Dire Straits to name a few.  Today, he is a member of Dire Straits Legacy who will be playing The Robins Theatre on August 13.  We had a chat with Phil to talk about his career, his time in Dire Straits and now touring with DSL which includes former members of Dire Straits. 

 

Greg Drugan:  Hey Phil, where are you Zooming in from today?

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Phil Palmer: Well, we’ve just arrived in Zurich.  We’ve got a concert here tomorrow in Switzerland.  

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GD:  You've had an incredible career performing with various artists across rock, pop, jazz, blues, whatever. What have those experiences brought to you as far as your influence and your approach to playing guitar?

 

PP:  That’s a good question.  I suppose my style has always been based on a country influence. From very early on, it was Chet Atkins and country pickers.  I tend to play with my fingers and I kind of always did.  I’m a picker, a proper picker.  As I’ve gone through all the various artists I’ve worked for, you have to adapt. As a session guy, you have to adapt to whatever is put in front of you. I’ve done all kinds of stuff and all of it has influenced me in some way. I did an album with Frank Zappa going back to 1979 and that had a big influence on me. I also played with Iggy Pop and David Bowie around the same time. He was the grandfather of punk they say, Iggy Pop. It’s been a gradual curve.  As a session player, you start small and do whatever is put in front of you. A magical day occurred for me after ten years of doing sessions and doing everything that was asked of me, I was suddenly asked to do a session and to be me. That was a milestone for me because it enabled me to be more creative. It let me contribute to records that was not like Jimmy Page, or not like Jeff Beck, it was me. I developed a style that I became known for. 

 

GD:  Absolutely! Looking back, do you remember the first artist you saw in concert and how did that impact you?

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PP:  It wasn’t the first artist I ever saw, but I went to the Albert Hall when I was 14 to see Jimi Hendrix. That was an amazing night.  I didn’t understand what in the hell he was making those noises.  The sound that was coming off the stage with just three guys was enormous. That was a big step for me. I must say that pretty much every guitar player in London was there including Eric Clapton and Jimmy Page. It was an amazing experience for everybody, I think.  To watch that guy who was totally unique and everyone was influenced by him in some way, but nobody could actually play like him.  I think it was a big moment for pretty much every guitar player when he arrived on the scene because he was like an alien. Nobody knew how to do what he was doing. (laughs) It opened up a whole new chapter of guitar playing. People are still trying to replicate it, it’s amazing. 

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GD:  Right!  Were you playing guitar at that point, at 14? When did you decide to pick up the guitar?

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PP:  I was born into a family of music. In fact, I had two uncles who were in a very successful band called The Kinks. Do you remember The Kinks?

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GD:  I love The Kinks!

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PP:  “You Really Got Me” and all of that. Ray and Dave Davies of The Kinks were my mother’s brothers. 

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GD:  Really?! I did not know that!  I just met Ray (actually Dave) a month ago!

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PP:  Really?

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GD:  Absolutely, they are one of my favorites of all time. I love The Kinks.

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PP:  Yeah, they were great. Ray’s getting old now. It was amazing to watch them evolve as The Kinks through all those early ‘60s, it was a massive influence on me. As a child, as a young lad and as a guitar player. I started playing when I was five, in fact, because of them. At five, my hands were pretty small so I started on a ukulele. 

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GD:  Sure.  Now, do you play anything else, or just the guitar?

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PP:  I’ve always focused on guitar.  I did take piano lessons for a few years when I was eight, ten or something like that. I didn’t like my piano teacher. She used to hit my fingers with a ruler when I made a mistake. 

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GD:  Sounds like a nun!

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PP:  She was a strange old lady. Miss Brooks her name was. 

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GD:  You were a huge session musician, like you said but then you joined Dire Straits during the On Every Street album and tour. What are your memories of performing those songs with Mark Knopfler and the rest of the guys?

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PP:  It was all a part of the gradual curve.  Right before Dire Straits, I was with Clapton for like three years. I developed a bit of a name for myself, I suppose. There was this event called the Knebworth Festival in 1991.  It was a massive event with like 200,000 people or something, it was mad. For some reason, Eric (Clapton) and Mark (Knopfler) decided that they should collaborate. We did Eric’s normal set then Mark (Knopfler), John (Illsley), and Guy (Fletcher) all came on stage.  I think Alan was there too, Alan Clark. We joined the two bands together and that was my first experience playing with Mark and some of the Dire Straits songs.  Everything kind of fell into place after that.  I got along pretty well with Mark and understood what he required from another guitar player, which was very important. We went from there.

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Eric had a bit of a tragedy in his life soon after that where his son died.  At the funeral of his son, Eric’s manager, Forrester his name was, said to everybody, “Listen, with all this going and the tragedy, it’s unlikely that Eric’s going to do anything for a while.” So I decided to go with Dire Straits at that point and signed a contract to do a world tour, a two year contract really. Then three or four days after I signed the contract to do Dire Straits, Eric called me and said “I’m not going to sit on my ass. I’m going to do an “Unplugged” album.” I have to say I can’t do it. Which was a terrible day.

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GD:  I can imagine.  You’re split between two right there.

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PP:  I think if it wasn’t for that, I probably , hopefully would still be working with Eric. 

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GD:  He’s still out there doing it as well.  He just played in Columbus, Ohio not that long ago. 

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PP:  I know, he’s amazing. Isn’t he? He’s 81 now.

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GD:  Wow, incredible. Today you're performing with Dire Straits Legacy. How does playing these classic songs with that lineup differ when you were an official member of Dire Straits?

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PP:  We work really hard at trying to get it exactly the same. And we’re very, very close.  Obviously, Mark’s not there and you can’t replace him.  But the guy we’ve got doing Mark is a bit of a Mark Knopfler expert. He’s studied his guitar technique religiously for most of his life. And he’s put it down. Although he’s Italian, his vocals are very, very close to Mark’s as well. Instrumentally and atmospherically, we work really hard at trying to make it exactly the same as it was. And we’re really, really close. It’s the closest you’ll get. 

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GD:  Very good.  That was my next question, people come to see you guys and they’re expecting the hits and some deeper cuts like "Sultans of Swing," "Money for Nothing,” so you do try to keep it close (to the original) or do you have anything to try and keep if fresh for you? 

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PP:  Do you know what?  There’s no need to keep it fresh. It’s always fresh.  Those songs are so great.  They’re built in such a way that they’re never boring to play. The long arrangements on things like “Telegraph Road.” It’s always a challenge, it’s 13 minutes long! It’s always a challenge to get it exactly right. Same with “Private Investigations” and all the wonderful atmospheric tunes that we did back in the original Dire Straits. We love to do it.  We work hard at making it precise and making the dynamics really dynamic which was one of Mark’s things. Mark insisted on that. We rehearsed for three months for the “On Every Street” tour. The songs are complicated but the dynamics are the thing that makes Dire Straits really special. To get nine people to all get the same dynamics at the same time is not easy. 

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GD:  Looking back, you mentioned Eric Clapton but also what was it like when Tina Turner made her big comeback.  You were a part of some of her tours as well and George Michael.  What was it like working with those two Hall of Fame artists?

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PP:  I loved working with Tina, she was amazing! So much energy. I did a European tour with her and a couple of albums. Not every track on every album but I did odds and sods for her on a couple of records.  I have very fond memories of Tina sitting on my knee while I was playing guitar, singing what she wanted me to play in my ear. Another great quote from Tina, during the rehearsals for that tour, which was Private Dancer tour, we had very limited time for rehearsals. She arrived in London and her guitar player never showed up.  I got a call on a Friday afternoon to hop down to Hammersmith Odeon in London with a guitar and the first gig was on Monday. We did a couple of intense days of rehearsal then off we went to Helsinki. One of the things she said to me as we started playing was “Watch my feet.  If I’m dancing, everything’s cool. If I’m not dancing, that means someone’s playing jazz.” 

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GD:  Interesting.

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PP:  That was it. The instructions that I got. Tina’s catalog was well known.  I pretty much knew all the songs anyway. “Nutbush City Limits” and all that stuff. It’s not rocket science for a guitar player but it was great fun and a great band too. 

 

GD: For sure. What about George Michael?

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PP:  I started working with George in 1990, I think it was. He was doing that album, Listen Without Prejudice. Which had some great songs on it.  A lot of his catalog was born there. It was mostly acoustic guitar.  He recorded in quite a strange way. He was developing songs as he went along. He didn’t have finished songs, he had ideas. My gig was to arrive at the studio and find a nice strumming pattern. Just me with a drum machine or a click track and develop the song as we went along. He would take the various bits and pieces that were recorded and develop them melodically over a space of a few weeks. Then invite me back in again to play the song when it was finished. It was done in two stages. The whole album was done like that. It was a fascinating experience and we got on great, me and George. It ended up that I did everything for him for 30 years. We did like four big tours. We did the Symphonica Tour with Phil Ramone. We did so much and I miss him.  He was a good bloke. 

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GD:  One of the best voices ever.  I love George Michael as well. Getting back to today, DSL audiences include long time Dire Straits fans as well as younger listeners who are discovering this music for the first time. What has surprised you about the continued appeal of this Dire Straits catalog? And seeing young people say “man, I love this music” that’s 30-40 years old.

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PP: It bodes well for the future.  We love playing this stuff. The audiences are definitely a cross-section.  There are people our age, or my age at least, and there’s kids who grew up with it because of their parents, or grandparents sometimes. They love the style of it and the purity of it, if you like. We don’t use any tricks on stage, everything you hear is played live. 

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GD:  That’s so important.

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PP:  Yeah, that’s really not the case these days. There’s a lot of Pro Tools going on underneath the stage for various artists.  I think that’s what impresses the younger people. They can’t understand where all that atmosphere is coming from and it’s just the people on the stage. That’s what makes it special because it’s different every night. 

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GD:  Yes, I agree with you, the younger people aren’t used to that and if there’s a mistake on stage, I love it because you know that it’s totally live. If there’s a little mishap or something goes wrong, or hey we’re gonna start that over. That’s rock and roll. 

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PP: Yeah, but that never happens with this band. We never start a song again. Very rarely will there be a slight deviation in arrangement. It’s usually deliberate. The band has to be really good and really listen to each other for that to occur. That’s one of the great things about this band. We enjoy it so much and it’s fun for us and consequently that transposes to the audience. They can see that we’re having fun. 

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GD: For sure!  You guys are coming over to the States.  You are going to be playing in Warren, Ohio on August 13.  I think fans are in for a real treat. You tell me, what can fans expect from the show?

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PP:  Every Dire Straits song that you ever loved, you will hear. There’s certain songs that have to be in the set, which are obvious like “Money For Nothing” and “Sultans of Swing,” “Private Investigations” and “Telegraph Road.” When we play in America, there was a track that wasn’t very well known in the rest of the world but it did very well in America called “Skateaway.”

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GD:  Oh, absolutely!

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PP:  You know that one?

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GD:  Oh for sure!  It was an MTV hit!

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PP:  There you go. Strangely, it doesn’t mean much anywhere else but we know it was a big hit in America so it’s in the set when we come there. And some other nice surprises. There all there! 

 

GD:  Very good. I’m gonna get the word out and we’re gonna pack the Robins Theatre.  It’s a beautiful theater and you’re really gonna enjoy it. I’m looking forward to seeing you, man it’s coming up next week already!

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PP:  Yeah, soon eh? I can’t wait!

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GD:  Phil, I’m glad we got this worked out.  I appreciate talking with you today and you spending a little bit of time with me. Safe travels coming over to the States and we will see you next week at Robins Theatre!

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PP:  I can’t wait, Greg.  Thanks so much, man!

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Make sure to check out Phil and the rest of Dire Straits Legacy at The Robins Theatre on August 13.  Tickets start at $39 and can be purchased here. 

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You can watch the entire interview here. 

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